Jump to content
DenariusTalk

Recommended Posts

On 12/4/2017 at 7:57 PM, ICanHazCrypto said:

I ment as Jan 14th... But again (don't take my word on this it might be sooner) this was just picked up from random comments on gitter chat the other day.
Denarius will be 6months old then, and that would be a wonderful time to have it launched. However we will have to find out from the dev when he wants to release that info. :)

No date from the dev, he has the masternode code done, he is just working on getting it implemented in the core DNR code.
 

Actually on January 14th, Denarius will be 7 months old. ;-)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK GUYS!!! LISTEN UP!!!! :) According to the graphs put out by Kawaii and I can Haz.. 4k coin for a masternode looks like it locks up about 30% of the coin and returns 137% or something like that (i dont have a photographic memory but you can go back 1 page). ALSO if you look at the rich list, only the top 50 right now can afford a master node and that would be the least we want. Im at 100 on the rich list with a little over 2k. Of course most people will accumulate more so the rich list should increase in average number. RIGHT NOW.. 4k would be where we would want it to get 50-100 to have a masternode. If the rich list changes then higher is fine but we need to be decentralized so having like 5 masternodes owned by 1 person will actually make the coin less stable, not more safe... What say you all? If you think this is a pragmatic number then sharpen your pitchforks and douse your torches in some diesel and lets burn this bitch down!!!

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys asked, you shall receive:

https://github.com/carsenk/denarius/commit/99c777f5276b45243f1b43216aa140c2d0ece444

The FIRST masternode, darksend, instantx, and spork commit is up now in the "masternodes" branch on the main Denarius Github, the versioning change is to v2.0.0.0 and the protocol versioning and DB versioning change, so only use it on a test machine and for test purposes, there is no GUI currently yet until further testing is done, RPC commands are available.

Do not use on a machine with your normal wallet, it will at this point delete the existing chain.

 

 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about no Master nodes?  If we were being honest, it has always appeared to me that Master nodes are a cheap, ponzi-like, mechanism to pump up a coin's value.

Sure, gives early adopters a nice pay off.  But if that is what drives the price of the coin, it won't last.  NEM being a case in point.

What, other than a quick payout, does it accomplish?  Eth doesn't have master nodes, Monero no master nodes, Zcash no masternodes, they've done swimmingly well based on different value propositions.

I think Denarius can make its own way without resorting to Master nodes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Slithbmeromon said:

How about no Master nodes?  If we were being honest, it has always appeared to me that Master nodes are a cheap, ponzi-like, mechanism to pump up a coin's value.

Sure, gives early adopters a nice pay off.  But if that is what drives the price of the coin, it won't last.  NEM being a case in point.

What, other than a quick payout, does it accomplish?  Eth doesn't have master nodes, Monero no master nodes, Zcash no masternodes, they've done swimmingly well based on different value propositions.

I think Denarius can make its own way without resorting to Master nodes.

I do actually agree with this as well, though the community really seems to want them, the only reason I have went forward with them so far, maybe we can come to some kind of new idea or compromise?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Carsen said:

I do actually agree with this as well, though the community really seems to want them, the only reason I have went forward with them so far, maybe we can come to some kind of new idea or compromise?

Whatcha mean by new idea / compromise? any suggestions?! what this could even mean / entail for masternodes!?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Slithbmeromon said:

How about no Master nodes?  If we were being honest, it has always appeared to me that Master nodes are a cheap, ponzi-like, mechanism to pump up a coin's value.

Sure, gives early adopters a nice pay off.  But if that is what drives the price of the coin, it won't last.  NEM being a case in point.

What, other than a quick payout, does it accomplish?  Eth doesn't have master nodes, Monero no master nodes, Zcash no masternodes, they've done swimmingly well based on different value propositions.

I think Denarius can make its own way without resorting to Master nodes.

You bring up an interesting point, but I feel like MNs do offer positive aspects for the coin.

They basically acts like a loyalty program because once you hold the coins to activate a MN you can't dump your coins unless you give up your right to run one. 

Furthermorethe coin lockup creates more demand for the coin. In essence a 10 million coin supply will be reduced to 4 million with a 60% lockup. 

Even if someone doesn't have enough to run a MN, the increased demand would be good for them. 

Finally you have a community that is always looking out for the best interest of the coin.

I may be missing something, but it does seem like a win/win.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go look at the price pattern or NEM (XEM).  It has gone through 2 variations of Master Nodes.

But put that aside, I like Denarius for its transaction times.  I think there are a few fundamentally underrated aspects of coins that are not reflected in the price at the moment.  The main one being privacy, and behind that transaction times.  Bitcoin is choking itself.

Carsen is the developer.  Apparently he agrees with my earlier view point, but feels he has to follow the community's wishes.  I understand that, but who exactly is part of Denarius community?  That is a question worth asking and the answer is not simple.

Chrysophalix had an interesting point about the Discord channel.  A lot of us can't access it during the working day.  Why do I raise this?  Up until 11-29-2017 I had pointed enough of my hashing power at Yiimp to average about 12% of the entire pool of Tribus hashing.  Then that changed right around 12/01/17.  I support Denarius.  But I also suspect talk of Master Nodes picked up steam right around this time on Discord.  Yet the main announcement page on Bitcointalk didn't really mention this until today.  I don't think that is fair.

Discord does not represent the entire community, in fact I would go so far as to say it leaves out the types of miners and supporters that Denarius should want to attract.

The master node discussion should be on bitcointalk.  Why?  Serious miners or investors follow more than one coin.  We've got bitcointalk, reddit, overclock.net to try and keep up with, and then an endless proliferation of slack channels and discord.

But back to your main points:  If you think you are creating "value" by having people lock up coins, I would say that might work for a while but it won't work long term.  "Community" - I don't think Discord covers the Denarius community.  Master nodes have always struck me as a ponzi - in the short term, people race to buy or mine enough of the coin to qualify for the MN cutoff number.  Then what?  If the coin has no basic value proposition, if the developers don't keep working on the coin, people lose interest and start dumping.

And master nodes offend me in a different way:  you just have to come up with the cash to buy your way into master nodes.  You don't have to mine a damn thing or learn how to mine.  And I think that is bad for the ecosystem as a whole.  You are playing into the hands of rich investors who want to make a quick buck and beyond that, they don't give a damn what coin they hold or sell so long as they make a profit.  That strikes me as short-sighted and not good for the long term health of the underlying coin in the long term.

I guess my plea is to Carsen:  This is your baby, I think it has value on its own and there is no need for Master nodes.  I'm speaking out because I don't think the entire community wants master nodes, but that's not a popular position to take.  I've supported Denarius from early days by mining it.  I am part of Denarius community and this is my view.  And no, you won't find me hanging out on Discord.  There are only so many hours in the day and maintaining/tweaking miners takes quite a few hours.

Thank you for considering this viewpoint.

Edited by Slithbmeromon
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 04/12/2017 at 8:36 PM, buzzkillb said:

I am in that same ballpark of how much it would be. I think realistically there will be 100-200 MN's in the short term depending on how easy they are to setup.

BTW I am running other coin nodes on $22/year VPS's with 1 GB ram. 1 per VPS as I wasn't sure how much ram is required and couldn't get the swapfile to work on these lowendtalk specials.

I got them to work although they say 2gb of ram and I said I wanted to cancel if I didn't get the swap as it odesn't say no swapfile can be used on T&C's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5000 DNR for a MN confirmed (at least for the moment!)

Quote
+#define START_MASTERNODE_PAYMENTS_TESTNET 1515900783 //2018-1-14 03:33:03 GMT
 
+#define START_MASTERNODE_PAYMENTS 1515900783 //2018-1-14 03:33:03 GMT
 
+
 
+static const int64_t DARKSEND_COLLATERAL = (5000*COIN); // 5,000 DNR
 
+static const int64_t DARKSEND_FEE = (0.010000*COIN); //0.01 DNR
 

+static const int64_t DARKSEND_POOL_MAX = (11000*COIN); //11,000 DNR

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If DNR POW ends after 3 years total, who is going to keep nodes up with the current POS rewards? I think the masternodes encourage the network to be spread out after POW ends. Also when block rewards go from 3 to 4 DNR for a year, that will make it just a little bit easier to mine to get one. Obviously not easy, but possible over time. I have rained/soaked quite a bit in chat, mined this on and off since June, and want at least 1 MN myself. Buy, mine whatever it takes, I want a DNR masternode as Carsen is creating something special here.

I still can't believe I am the first to bring this up in the bitcointalk ANN. At least I finally hear a reason some don't want to camp out on discord during the day.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, buzzkillb said:

If DNR POW ends after 3 years total, who is going to keep nodes up with the current POS rewards? I think the masternodes encourage the network to be spread out after POW ends. Also when block rewards go from 3 to 4 DNR for a year, that will make it just a little bit easier to mine to get one. Obviously not easy, but possible over time. I have rained/soaked quite a bit in chat, mined this on and off since June, and want at least 1 MN myself. Buy, mine whatever it takes, I want a DNR masternode as Carsen is creating something special here.

I still can't believe I am the first to bring this up in the bitcointalk ANN. At least I finally hear a reason some don't want to camp out on discord during the day.

@buzzkillb same here I want a MN. DNR low price tag will be temporary after MN starts and DNR will come into increased demand as block reward increases!

@Carsen is one of the most dedicated, supportive and user friendly dev's I have seen on the cyrpto scene that why I believe that DNR will go places!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will run a few Master Nodes. I'd like to see them rare in a sense as the coin itself will be rare in time to come. 5000 DNR per Master Node makes perfect sense. Its not ridiculously expensive for a MN and not too cheap. Those in early will benefit from the cheaper prices whilst the newcomers/latecomers will need to pay a bit more before the price moves north

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Slithbmeromon said:

How about no Master nodes?  If we were being honest, it has always appeared to me that Master nodes are a cheap, ponzi-like, mechanism to pump up a coin's value.

Sure, gives early adopters a nice pay off.  But if that is what drives the price of the coin, it won't last.  NEM being a case in point.

What, other than a quick payout, does it accomplish?  Eth doesn't have master nodes, Monero no master nodes, Zcash no masternodes, they've done swimmingly well based on different value propositions.

I think Denarius can make its own way without resorting to Master nodes.

If the only thing a coin has going for it is masternodes, then it makes no sense. , but denarius has other things, like encrypted messaging, stealth transactions and low block time.. Also, even though it is a PoS-only coin after a couple of years, supply will not inflate wildly.

Yes it does give early adopters a nice payoff.. But that can be said for everything good added to the coin or the ecosystem around the coin.

Masternodes accomplishes a few things:

  • It reduces available coin supply (yes this is only a benefit to people already hodling the coin or buys before MNs is released).
  • It encourages people to run stable nodes by giving them a financial incentive to do so, thus making the coin more decentralized (unless everybody hosts in the same datacenter).
  • Because of masternodes being a buzzword in crypto circles, it would bring added awareness to the Denarius project.

I too think that Denarius can be big without masternodes, but I fail to see how masternodes would be a bad thing - at worst, things will stay as they are, with an additional feature added to the wallet.

10 hours ago, Slithbmeromon said:

Go look at the price pattern or NEM (XEM).  It has gone through 2 variations of Master Nodes.

But put that aside, I like Denarius for its transaction times.  I think there are a few fundamentally underrated aspects of coins that are not reflected in the price at the moment.  The main one being privacy, and behind that transaction times.  Bitcoin is choking itself.

Carsen is the developer.  Apparently he agrees with my earlier view point, but feels he has to follow the community's wishes.  I understand that, but who exactly is part of Denarius community?  That is a question worth asking and the answer is not simple.

Chrysophalix had an interesting point about the Discord channel.  A lot of us can't access it during the working day.  Why do I raise this?  Up until 11-29-2017 I had pointed enough of my hashing power at Yiimp to average about 12% of the entire pool of Tribus hashing.  Then that changed right around 12/01/17.  I support Denarius.  But I also suspect talk of Master Nodes picked up steam right around this time on Discord.  Yet the main announcement page on Bitcointalk didn't really mention this until today.  I don't think that is fair.

Discord does not represent the entire community, in fact I would go so far as to say it leaves out the types of miners and supporters that Denarius should want to attract.

The master node discussion should be on bitcointalk.  Why?  Serious miners or investors follow more than one coin.  We've got bitcointalk, reddit, overclock.net to try and keep up with, and then an endless proliferation of slack channels and discord.

But back to your main points:  If you think you are creating "value" by having people lock up coins, I would say that might work for a while but it won't work long term.  "Community" - I don't think Discord covers the Denarius community.  Master nodes have always struck me as a ponzi - in the short term, people race to buy or mine enough of the coin to qualify for the MN cutoff number.  Then what?  If the coin has no basic value proposition, if the developers don't keep working on the coin, people lose interest and start dumping.

And master nodes offend me in a different way:  you just have to come up with the cash to buy your way into master nodes.  You don't have to mine a damn thing or learn how to mine.  And I think that is bad for the ecosystem as a whole.  You are playing into the hands of rich investors who want to make a quick buck and beyond that, they don't give a damn what coin they hold or sell so long as they make a profit.  That strikes me as short-sighted and not good for the long term health of the underlying coin in the long term.

I guess my plea is to Carsen:  This is your baby, I think it has value on its own and there is no need for Master nodes.  I'm speaking out because I don't think the entire community wants master nodes, but that's not a popular position to take.  I've supported Denarius from early days by mining it.  I am part of Denarius community and this is my view.  And no, you won't find me hanging out on Discord.  There are only so many hours in the day and maintaining/tweaking miners takes quite a few hours.

Thank you for considering this viewpoint.

Who is the community is a good question indeed. Of course I do not assume that everybody in the DNR community is in the discord and I agree that maybe the rumors of masternodes could have been communicated better. However as far as I know, Carsen has not stated that masternodes WILL be a part of the denarius wallet, he simply stated that it was something he is spending some time on, to see if it can be done. 

I see the problem that websocket-based chat apps/sites are blocked in coporate networks, so it might be hard to keep up with everything happening. However, on this very site there has been a thread with a poll since July 13th regarding masternodes. It has been annouced in the bitcointalk thread as far as I know and 3/4th of the votes wanted masternodes, so everybody who checked the thread knew that it was a possibility back then, just as it is a possibility now, not a certainty.

To be honest I do not see how mining is different from buying a coin. Sure, you do not need the technical skills, but so what? If I mine the coin or if I buy the coin, I can dump it all the same. Actually I personally would probably dump some of it sooner if mining because I have to pay for electricity.. 

Maybe you are right, maybe masternodes does nothing to benefit Denarius in the long run.. But my question is this: Do you think masternodes would hurt Denarius?

Even though we have opposing views, I do really appreciate your input. It is dangerous for a coins community to be inside an echo chamber where everybody hypes each other up.

Edited by KawaiiCrypto
edited for clarification.
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Slithbmeromon said:

"buzzword" - is that any reason to go with Master Nodes?

"Those in early will benefit from the cheaper prices whilst the newcomers/latecomers will need to pay a bit more before the price moves north"  - that is how every Ponzi scheme works.  Until it doesn't.

Slow and steady can win the race.

 

 

Nope, I never said that because masternodes is a buzzword Denarius should have them. I said that because masternodes is a buzzword, if Denarius gets them, it would bring added attention to the project.

Yes that is generally how markets work, early adopters gets a bigger return because they took on more risk. The people who bought the ethereum ICO earned a boatload of money, because they assumed the risk and decided it was worth it. People who bought in later earned less.

Now..

Will a masternode release help increase price? Yes I would think so.

Will price drop some after the initial knee-jerk fomo rally? Yes, I would think so, like every other rally someone will buy the top, no matter what announcement is made.

Will masternodes hurt the project? No, I do not think so.

 

You have not answered my question: Do you think masternodes would hurt Denarius?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×